SaaS Stories
SaaS Stories is my not-so-secret quest to learn what it truly takes to succeed in the world of SaaS—and I’m inviting you along for the ride! I have the pleasure of sitting down with brilliant minds and industry trailblazers to explore their journeys, uncovering the secrets behind their growth, the gaps they spotted in the market, and what really drives them.
It’s not all smooth sailing—there are challenges, unexpected turns, and moments of reflection where they share what they’d love to change about their journey. Think of it as a candid, insider’s look into the world of SaaS, with just the right amount of curiosity, empathy, and wit.
Join me as I dive deep, selfishly soak up all the insights, and hopefully share a little inspiration with you along the way—one SaaS story at a time.
SaaS Stories
From Excel Spreadsheet to Game-Changing SaaS: The 200-hour Admin Problem One Founder Solved
Catherine Ashton, founder and CEO of Critical Info, shares her journey of creating a comprehensive platform to simplify end-of-life planning after experiencing firsthand the overwhelming administrative burden following a death.
We Discuss:
• The Critical Info platform and how it helps people learn about end-of-life choices.
• Catherine's "My Loved One Died. What Do I Do Now?" guide walks people through steps in the first hours, days, weeks and months.
• The importance of getting to know your market before building a prototype.
• Community engagement strategies and how they can help build awareness on a limited budget.
Welcome everybody to another episode of SaaS Stories. Today I'm joined by local Melbourne CIDR, Catherine Ashton, CEO and founder of Critical Info. Welcome, Catherine.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, Joanna.
Speaker 1:So tell us about Critical Info. What is it all about for anyone listening and wondering what it is? What is it all about for anyone listening and wondering what it is? Tell us um what it is and also what started you on this journey as well, sure?
Speaker 2:so critical info is an online platform that allows people to learn about their end-of-life choices, document them and share them with loved ones. So there's different components to that that allow people to hear stories from other people with lived experience or experts within the industry. So that's the Don't Be Caught Dead podcast. We have the website, which connects people with over 300 organisations throughout Australia that are specialists in end-of-life planning, death care or bereavement, so, you know, people don't have to Google like we did when we found ourselves in a situation. And then it also has the platform, which is called the Critical Info Platform, which allows people to document their choices and share them with loved ones. So that's a simple system that we take people through over a 15-day period and by that they actually get a to-do list of the documents they still need to collect. They nominate two key contacts so in an emergency where their information becomes critical, someone can access that information for them, and then they also have a guide on how to actually complete their to-do list afterwards.
Speaker 1:It's such a it's such a pressing need, isn't it? I'm just thinking. You know, I've luckily not had this happen to me yet, but you know, when it does, I think I'll just be in complete shock and really not know what to do. So did you find that your audience, that's what happens to them, and so it sounded like you had a personal story there and that's why you founded this.
Speaker 2:So maybe tell us a little bit about that yeah, look, it is a very overwhelming experience for anyone who has been through that. Your listeners will know that. You know you're dealing with a situation that is very challenging. You're perhaps grieving, uh, and then you have all of these logistical challenges, and I think that there is one report that documents that around about 200 hours of death administration that you're required to do after someone dies.
Speaker 2:So this is the situation we found ourselves in in February of 2023, when my husband's best friend died, and it was fortunate or unfortunate, that I wasn't working at the time. I had had a car accident in 2019. And so I had subsequent spinal surgery and developed chronic pain as a result. So I was at a bit of a loss and a bit of a crossroads, didn't know what I was going to do with my life you know, being in my forties and have worked in one place, at the Royal Botanic Gardens, for 13 years as a producer of major events. So I was in a situation that I wasn't working and didn't know what I was going to do.
Speaker 2:And then our friend Roland died, and it was fortunate that I was in that situation, because his two adult children live in New York, and so we had to actually become custodians of his apartment and all of his belongings and everything like that, while they took time to travel here, and then we worked with them over the next six weeks to finalise his estate and do what we could while they were still in the country. So that was the situation we found ourselves in, and it was really overwhelming. And what surprised me at the time was I, you know, turned to Google, as most people do in situations, and I couldn't find the information in one spot that I needed for, you know, his children, and I just thought this is crazy. It's not like this is the first time that this has happened. And so, being the good producer I was at that stage I started an Excel spreadsheet, and that Excel spreadsheet has now turned into the platform that it is today, and that Excel spreadsheet has now turned into the platform that it is today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing it always starts with I found a gap in the market. I felt like this is a problem that I had. It's incredible that you know this is obviously not a new problem that humanity is experiencing and yet I can't believe. You just said 200 hours of admin. That's incredible. You know, not something you can be dedicating when you're grieving as well? When you first started, what were maybe some of the biggest obstacles you faced and how did you tackle them?
Speaker 2:Well, as I mentioned that, my background was producing events. I was working in a botanic garden, so it was far removed from an industry that was really tech orientated. I had this spreadsheet. I didn't know whether there was anything in the market that was already available, that I just hadn't found. So that was. The first challenge is to establish, you know, is there a need and how do I turn this you know bloody Excel spreadsheet into something and will people you know is there a need and how do I turn this you know bloody Excel spreadsheet into something and will people you know be interested in it? So what was really a weird sort of twist of fate is that in the October before our friend died so October 2022, when I had just completed a 16-week pain management course at the Victorian Rehab Centre, you know they take you through all your values and you know how you can actually reconnect with your values and work out what you're going to do with the rest of your life.
Speaker 2:And at that point I knew that for me, moving forward, I would have to create a job for myself, because I could not work traditional hours that would be expected, probably, from an employer. So I was visiting my mum in Gippsland and my aunt said to me oh, you should be a funeral celebrant. You know it was the most rewarding job that I've ever done and so me, being the person I am, I, you know, don't take things lightly. I kind of jump into them and really do my research. So there was a redesigning death care conference that Melbourne Uni were putting on in October of that year and I attended and I was so fortunate that I did Like.
Speaker 2:I obviously worked out that being a funeral celebrant was not going to be the path for me.
Speaker 2:It was just too close to the grief and was too triggering. But the people that I met at that conference were the first people that I actually reached out to that following year and they were so generous with their time and they were just fantastic with how they provided their space and the opportunity to talk through my ideas and very quickly I established that there was a need in the market for it and for me. Going back to those values that I had sort of aligned myself with or really made kind of connection with the previous year, I knew that if I was going to build something or do something, I wanted to make sure that people in their local area could also find someone to support them. So that's where I made the decision that I would reach out to industry associations. So I contacted Australian Funeral Directors Association, reputable bereavement organisations such as Griefline and, you know, natural Death Advocacy Network all of these different associations that represent different parts of the industry and started talking to them about what their problems were, what they saw, and from there, the more people I started networking with just at local business functions and started to be involved in the start-up world, you know, the more people had personal stories and that's how the podcast came about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it sounds like you took the very important first step of market validation, which a lot of SaaS founders unfortunately skip. They kind of go ah, we'll just build it and they'll come. So you know how important do you think that step was, having that market validation and what was maybe an unexpected challenge that you saw in those early days?
Speaker 2:Look, it is still an ongoing process. I think that it would be pretty arrogant to say that the iteration that I have now, which is in its fourth iteration and the one that's going to market, it's currently with a focus group, so that's the fourth focus group that I've actually had on the platform and it's now going to market in April. It would be really arrogant for me to think that that is going to be the design, that it's going to be in six months' time. You know, I think that when you put something out there, you have to be not so attached to it that it is going to be the it and the bit. I think you have to be flexible and be responsive to what the audience is telling you.
Speaker 2:So you know, originally, when I started, I went to an organization that developed a prototype for me, but it was this kind of like clunky, kind of access database kind of concept of a platform and you know people just weren't going to do that. It was too time consuming and, yeah, it wasn't appealing, whereas now the iteration that we have is audio responses transcribed it's. You know. Video responses it's you know. Drop-down lists, you know drop down lists, things like that that make it a lot easier and quicker for people to respond and a lot more personalised as well. So I think that that would be the biggest learning is don't think that what you have is the it and the bit. You have to be ready to kind of adjust depending on what the audience says, and I'm sure I will in six months, three months, you know, ongoing.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sure you're going to do really well with an attitude like that, I think. What do they say? Adapt or die. So it's good that you're already ready for that journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, look, but it is. It is interesting you know just little things, that when you run focus groups, that you take for granted, but it's not until you actually have the insight of the everyday user that you know that you actually really realise just whether it's the tech language that you're using or whether it's just simple steps about, like how to start recording and how to stop recording. Sometimes we have these assumptions and it's great to actually get the audience in to test it and then work out oh, okay, no, I really need to break this down more, and so, yeah, that's been some good learnings along the way, just in relation to the platform development side of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Take me a little bit through your developmental journey as well. So you're not technical yourself. I'm guessing you've had to approach developers. What was that like? How did you go about that?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because, again, I think that when I first started this, I knew that my health had to be the priority, and I would say that that should be the recommendation for any founder, or especially solo founder, because when you put your health as a priority, what that means is that you look at systems that can automate themselves, or you look for digital products or things like that, that it can actually sell while you sleep, basically. So it's actually a really good way to innovate was when you actually put yourself first. So for me, I knew that that had to be the priority. So I started off and approached a organization to develop a prototype for me. They had aate program and that was fine. It got me to a certain point. But I think that if you stay within the tech industry and only talk to the tech industry, you know it's a bit like a self-fulfilling prophecy, because you're around people that are in tech all the time and they will just actually, you know, tell you it's fantastic and everyone will buy it, but in reality, it's not the case. So for me, I then went really back and took this prototype to all of the industry associations and built those relationships, because if you don't have input from the market and from those industry leaders, about learning what the problem is within the marketplace. You're not going to have a market when you go live or an audience, and what that allowed me to do is to make sure that I refined it according to the gaps in the marketplace. So, at the moment in the marketplace, you actually have a lot of platforms that are an add-on to, like a wills platform or a cremation platform or you know, or a system that a marketplace where you pay advertising fees to actually be part of a particular platform. That is something that I didn't want to do. As I mentioned, I did not want to actually muddy the waters whatsoever in relation to who I was aligning myself with, and I wanted it to be fully transparent. So there was no advertising fees or anything like that, and by doing that, that meant that the audience that I was aligning myself with is now the audience that are actually have supported that throughout the last two years. You know and will be there when I launch this iteration of the platform, so I think that that is the key thing.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I would say is that is finding a really good developer, and so, as you mentioned. I am so not the tech person, but I went into the tech industry. I started attending, you know, the startup network events here in Melbourne. I also became a. I was fortunate enough to be part of the Flying Fox Female Founder Program last year, which was a 12-week program. Flying Fox is a venture capital firm and the mentorship that I got during that 12 weeks was invaluable experience, and the people that I got to speak to and trial my idea with was just brilliant and that was sort of a good idea and a platform for me to be exposed to venture capital funding and work out that it wasn't really for me.
Speaker 2:Something that I should mention is that, because of my accident, I had a settlement from TAC with a common law claim. I had, you know, income protection and that's what allowed me to sort of survive for a few years. So it meant that I had also the financial resources to basically create a job for myself and that's what I've done, you know. So that meant that I didn't have to go down the VC path funding way, because I think that what some people don't understand is why it looks really glamorous and why the numbers are overwhelming and, you know, you get them in the headlines you see what the smart company is writing and who's got what funding and whatsoever.
Speaker 2:But you know it really is the long-term marriage that you're actually having with a funder, and you know they have the ability to. Really what they're looking for is, once they fund, they're also looking at the exit strategy. So you're already having a marriage which is already ending in divorce and so for me, you know that's a pretty cynical way of looking at it, but and I have the ability to look at it that way because I didn't need the funding and it's suitable for some people, that's fine, but it just wasn't the path that I was going to go down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's two types of people in the SaaS world ones that built with exit in mind and ones that build because they just want to build something that's incredible, that's going to change the world and make it a better place. So I have heard from both sides and the ones that want to build it and keep it. They definitely stay away from VC funding. But it sounds like you've had a lot of support more support and skepticism on your journey, and have you found that there's a lot of support out there for female founders wanting to build something fresh and new like this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so probably two elements to that question. I was fortunate enough to have immense support from Rachel and Kylie at Flying Fox and their team, so for me, I felt like I was very supported during that program, for so not everyone is as fortunate to actually have that support. What I would say is, with anything, you get your returns of what you actually put into it. So I have been very, very conscious of making sure that I attend startup events, that I'm talking to people, that I'm reaching out, that I'm following up from every business card, I send emails, I go through LinkedIn, so it is also what you make it Like. The best thing you can ever do is actually get in contact with someone and ask them for a coffee and buy them a coffee. You know that is just an amazing thing. Even if it's actually just over Zoom, the principle is still the same and I've been really well supported in that respect.
Speaker 2:In relation to, you know, sort of paving a way or trying to find a way through that hasn't actually been, you know, sort of developed or formed yet. That's really challenging because you're constantly talking about a concept. You know, for two years I have talked about a concept and I've been really fortunate that some of these people have been wonderful and have come on board and seen this concept in different iterations and given their feedback either through focus groups or through meetings. But really they have had a lot of faith in me and a lot of support, which has been really overwhelming. But at the same time, it's a really hard thing to actually try and explain what I'm trying to do, and I think that the way in which I navigated that was by having conversations through the podcast. So for me, the podcast started off in February of last year, the same time that I launched the website that connects people with those 300 organisations across Australia, and then that meant that people could see that there was some substance behind what I was actually offering in the platform, that it was actually a collegiate sort of way in which you're bringing and a collaborative way in which you're bringing resources together and the whole industry together.
Speaker 2:So, regardless of where you are in either end of life planning, death care or bereavement, you can find someone and you'll be supported along that path. And that's something that's unique because within the industry of the death care kind of funeral industry, everyone is very good at telling their story, but they only tell it from their point of view. So it's quite siloed, whereas this is the first platform that actually brings those organisations all together across the whole country. So that's a place that we're very unique in, and the fact that we don't just focus on a will or our, you know, funeral plan or an advanced care plan. What we do is we look holistically at someone's life and we then say to them well, you know, we suggest that you actually get, you know, a power of attorney or a guardianship, or these are the documents that we recommend. So it's a far more holistic approach than what's currently in the market.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that sounds amazing. What was maybe the first big win that made you feel like you were on the right path with this? I'm sure you've had many moments where you're like, oh my God, what am I doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Had had quite a big one of those about two weeks ago, um, but I think, um, I think for me, I always get a buzz when, when someone uh buys a copy of my guide. So last year in April and exactly you know what you commented on when we first started the conversation, joanna was you know you wouldn't know what to do if someone died, and that was a result of one of the focus groups that I had. And so I'm like, okay, well, what is out there to tell you and guide you through the priority steps that you need to do? And so I developed a guide called my Loved One Died.
Speaker 2:What Do I Do Now? Pretty straightforward, it is what it says and it takes you through those steps that you need to do in the first hours, days, weeks and months after someone dies, to do in the first hours, days, weeks and months after someone dies. And there was nothing in the market that was serving that purpose. You know you get it from again that siloed approach, so the executor talks from, you know, has their role, or the power of attorney, you know, turns into the executor, all of these sorts of things, but nothing that took you through that step-by-step process. And so when that was released in April last year, it was such a buzz for me that I actually had a sale about a month in and I didn't know the person and I was so excited I'm like, okay, they're not an industry contact of mine. I don't know their email address. This is so amazing. I've actually made. I felt like I made my first sale and, look, I still get a buzz from that even now. You know I love that.
Speaker 2:But another thing that sort of keeps me going when things are, you know, can get pretty crappy because, again, you know like I am just doing this by myself. So I have my husband and and my, my son. That are good sounding boards going. Okay, I've got this idea. What do you think? So they're great.
Speaker 2:But the thing is is that at the end of the day, the decisions I make and the money that I invest and the pathway that I go down is ultimately my decision, and that can be really challenging. And the thing that I keep coming back to is that there was a woman that approached me last year. I had started doing Q&A sessions once a month to support the sales of the guide so people could come and ask questions. Not that I'm a financial advisor or lawyer or anything like that, but it's just to help them navigate the resource and then connect them to the area of specialty that they need. And one of the women came on and she said that she used to have an absolute fear of death and through listening to the podcast, she no longer has a fear and she's now training to become a death doula.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And for those of you who are unfamiliar with the term death doula, that is someone who actually spends those. Once someone is diagnosed with a life-limiting illness, they are the ones that spend their time with that person during that period for as long as that person or their family needs. And that is some tough work. Like I do not feel like I could actually do that. Who's gone from complete fear of death now to training to be a death doula and to think that I had some little part in that through facilitating the conversations with experts and people who have lived experience, that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's incredible. Certainly tackled those fears, didn't she?
Speaker 2:that's amazing yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Um, it sounds like you've grown quite a bit through partnerships with these industry organisations, which I applaud. I think that's an incredible strategy for anyone you know out there looking to grow and scale their SaaS platform. Have you done any kind of marketing advertising? You know what are maybe some other scaling strategies that you've implemented that have worked well?
Speaker 2:And, weirdly, I have only and I may have alluded to this previously is that I've only actually started an advertising campaign on social media for the first time, and this was for the Guide in the last month and a half on social media, so meta platforms that is. You know, you hear a lot, of, a lot of stories and you attend a lot of workshops about social media and SEO and all of these other things, and I just thought you know what? I'm not going to do anything until I find someone who's really, really good at this, and by for me, what I meant by that is that I wanted to find someone who was driven by the data. And you know, joanna, I'm very sure that you're aware of this industry and how, a lot of the times when you are looking for suppliers, it is sometimes more about the supplier than what it is about your business and what you're trying to achieve. And so, for me, I found someone who was totally driven by the data, because I think that when you're making something and putting something out there that is a bit revolutionary and a bit of a game changer in the market, you have to be someone who you're partnering with from a supplier's perspective. It's not about them, it's about let's see what the market's telling us about what's required. And I found someone to do that and that was really exciting. So you know, we've been tweaking the campaign according to that. So that was exciting. But for me and this is something that you know I did when I was at the gardens and it works really well because we had hardly any budget there. So kind of like how I've got hardly any budget now, but what it is is community engagement.
Speaker 2:So for me, when I was first, when I first launched the platform last year and the website, I thought, okay, well, how can I get some traction, how can I feed off other people's marketing channels? And I'm like, what festival can I be part of? Because I'm like, okay, they've already got an existing reach. You know, maybe I can do something wacky to engage people and get people's response and actually engage with the public more and get more feedback. I'd done, by that stage, a few expos. I think I'd done one at the startup network that we're doing, a female founder expo over in their offices in North Melbourne. I had done like a local Frankston City Council one. I think I'd done one at the local RSL as well. But I'm like, okay, let's see how I can kind of amplify that a little bit.
Speaker 2:So there's a pretty kind of it's almost sort of like a fringe version festival that specialises down here on the Mornington Peninsula called and it's run by the Frankston Arts Centre and Council and it's called Southside Festival and I'm like, okay, maybe we can do this. So I approached them and they were really supportive. So I did my first pub quiz as part of that and that was ridiculous, like the first night that I did. One was part of a different festival and didn't take off so much.
Speaker 2:But you know, you test these things about who you align with and what your market is. So the first one was with, was more based on heritage and those sorts of things, whereas this one was just basically, you know, coming out smart, the Grim Reaper, you know, and all of the topics were about death, which surprisingly is so much in pop culture, weirdly. And it was ridiculous Like it sold out and I was still getting phone calls from people trying to actually get tickets that night and we raised over $500 for two charities that specialise in funeral poverty, so Sustainable Funerals Group and also the Victorian Aboriginal Funeral Service in Victoria. So yeah, I would say be brave, you know, go out there and see what community engagement you can do and who you can align with. And yeah, very little budget.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like you've come up with some really clever and creative ways to really get the brand awareness out there. So, yeah, that's incredible. I think you know a lot of the funded start-ups. They spend so much money in advertising and they probably don't get to where you know some of the clever and creative ideas get to. So that's really refreshing to hear, knowing what you know. Now, having been through that journey, what do you think will be your next hire in the business? Someone that can hopefully take something off you that you don't want to do anymore, or maybe you feel you know someone has a strength in this particular skill. What would you hire for?
Speaker 2:At the moment. The current model that I have is sort of using suppliers on a consignment basis, because I am going through such a growth stage. So I've managed to find a really good marketing team who are helping me with the launch and just getting my messaging framework in place, because, from where I have been, the messaging has sort of been built on from my initial brand creation before I started and, and now, two years on, you need to kind of realign that with where we're at, so so that's something that I bought them on. I have an advertising company who I'm really happy to work with. They're they're brilliant. I have a VA who is just my lifeline in social media creation and things like that. So I have also my my podcast editor, uh, who is just the best person in the world, um, so she's also actually recorded a song about my business. So how cool is that?
Speaker 2:I know it's, it's like it's a full three minute song. It's amazing, but I think that that's the thing is that I've always made sure that I know what my strengths and what my weaknesses are and I've always found someone to work with who can improve that and bring their skills set in. So at this stage this is the more sort of model that I'm happy with. At this particular point in time, my developing team has now actually moved from developing stage now into sort of maintenance stage. So again, that'll be a consignment agreement. I have a lawyer who I trust, so that's just on an as needs basis. So it's really just building my network around me of people who I trust and support their expertise and calling on when need be.
Speaker 2:I've been very clever that, as I said, you know, by putting my health first. It meant that most of the product out there is actually electronic and it's actually really just updating links on documents or platforms. So I don't need to be involved in that. So where my involvement is, in the next stage of the business, when the platform is launched in April, we'll be developing the training that goes alongside the platform. So for people who there's a, there's good timing for, I suppose for me in relation to the new rules that are coming and guidelines that are coming in with the Age Care Act, that end of life planning is no longer a tick and flick exercise.
Speaker 2:It is now something that an organisation can be audited on. So we are now providing a full solution to those organisations that need to comply by. We can actually go in and offer training using the critical info platform. To you know, and offer training using the critical info platform to you know sort of allow people to get their paperwork in order and focus on that. So I think that that's going to be our big expanse over the next sort of 12 months is developing that sort of accredited consultants trainers program, whereby what I'd like to see is developing a model where we set up independent consultants in each state over the next three years, to you know, have a training hub in each state to support organisations that need to, you know, improve their standards for end-of-life planning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I was actually just going to ask about your customer success strategy. Do you get anyone using the platform that's struggling and you know how do you tackle that side of it, customer success. Is that something you do yourself at the moment, or you've had to get a team around that?
Speaker 2:So at the moment that's sort of being handled by the development team and responding to that development team and responding to that. Then, if there is any, those learnings from the platform will be implemented into the training program. So we know that perhaps people who are an older generation aren't too familiar with certain things that a younger generation just know and sort of like it's like they've known from birth how to actually impress certain things.
Speaker 2:So you know there's there's those challenges about using a, you know, a sass platform for all ages and especially an older demographic. So that's why we've devised the workshops to actually tailor it to what those needs are. Uh and and it comes back to that that sort of idea that you know it's not a matter of just building it and they'll come you have to actually be aware of the demographic and your audience that you're targeting. So we need to support those people to do that. And also, you know, the space that we're in is end of life planning and, like I said, there was one person who has death anxiety, and that's not uncommon person who has death anxiety, and that's not uncommon. So probably one of the challenge, most challenging things, and perhaps what hasn't sort of got products across the line in the past in this space, is the inability to have open conversations about it in the first place. So that's why community engagement and the opportunities to do things such as these pub quizzes and these talks publicly I'm working with and I have worked last year as well with the Mornington Peninsula Shire and Frankston City Council with their Dying to Know Day, which is a community engagement program that they run, where it's a series of talks with experts. So the need is being recognised by organisations for these conversations to be had, and they're supporting those programs, which is fantastic. We just need to amplify it because, as we know, the numbers and the statistics tell us that our ageing population is going to increase quite significantly over the next few years, and we need to be ready to be having these conversations now.
Speaker 2:Because, you know, I find myself. I'm in my forties, I have a 21 year old son and I have an 85 year old mother. If anything happens to either of them, I'll be the one responsible for everything, and so it is in my best interests to actually make sure my mum's critical information is taken care of, and so is my son's and also my own, because the hardship that we went through and what we saw Roland's children go through, of not knowing his wishes and not knowing whether he wanted to be created or sorry, cremated, I should say not created, that's a whole different perspective. I should say not created, that's a whole different perspective. But whether you know what his wishes were like, we knew he had a will, but we didn't know where it was. The legal firm wanted to even charge the kids a fee to actually go and pick up the will, which was just ridiculous and not on and not acceptable. So just all of these things I just don't want anyone to have to go through what we went through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, catherine, it sounds like you've built an amazing platform. That's very much people have a need for. I mean, it's incredible that you know we're in 2025 and people have been managing the way they've been managing. So it's so refreshing to hear that there's something there that can really help ease that pain. And it's so nice to hear your story. You know how far you've come with just yourself, and then you know hiring for these weaknesses or the things complementary skills that you've needed along the way without the VC funding, so it's a very inspirational story. My last question for you is, if you could go back in time, what's one thing you might change?
Speaker 2:For me. I think when I did my first prototype, I was still really, really naive of the market. I think that in hindsight, it would have been good for me not to feel like I needed to build a prototype straight away, whereas you know, like that's all the messaging that you get, god, if you read every single book that's out there on on startups, and you know, get the product out there, build, build, build. You know, and you know I get sort of like, oh geez, just get to know your market first. Yeah, you know, like that is the most important thing, because if you don't understand it, like it doesn't matter what the hell you build, it's never going to have product market fit.
Speaker 2:So I really don't agree with you know, certainly not in my example. Was it a great idea to build first. You know it helped in the fact that I had something to show people. But you can do that in other ways. It doesn't have to be a prototype to get out there and show. So that would be the thing that I would say is that don't feel like you have to build a prototype straight away.
Speaker 1:I mean as a marketer myself. I absolutely love that advice because it's something I preach constantly, like get to know your niche, nail your niche, get to know your market. You know what are their pain points, what keeps them up at night, what are their challenges. You know that's something you need to understand before you go and do any kind of campaign or, you know, even building a product or a platform. So that's, I love that advice, thank you. Thank you so much for being on the show today. It's so refreshing to hear your story and so good that a product like this exists as well. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you for your time, joanna. I love chatting about you. Know how I can help people, so thank you.
