SaaS Stories
SaaS Stories is my not-so-secret quest to learn what it truly takes to succeed in the world of SaaS—and I’m inviting you along for the ride! I have the pleasure of sitting down with brilliant minds and industry trailblazers to explore their journeys, uncovering the secrets behind their growth, the gaps they spotted in the market, and what really drives them.
It’s not all smooth sailing—there are challenges, unexpected turns, and moments of reflection where they share what they’d love to change about their journey. Think of it as a candid, insider’s look into the world of SaaS, with just the right amount of curiosity, empathy, and wit.
Join me as I dive deep, selfishly soak up all the insights, and hopefully share a little inspiration with you along the way—one SaaS story at a time.
SaaS Stories
Rethinking Ownership: How Karmo Is Disrupting a $30B Auto Habit
Sam Zammit's journey from military service to co-founding Karmo reveals how unconventional career paths often lead to the most innovative business solutions. After completing his MBA and gaining experience at Uber, Sam joined forces with longtime friend to revolutionise how Australians access vehicles through a subscription model that challenges traditional ownership.
The car subscription concept addresses a startling reality: most Australians dramatically underestimate their vehicle costs. With 40% of ownership expenses going to depreciation alone, the true annual cost is typically 50% higher than what consumers believe they're paying. Karmo offers a compelling alternative – flexible access without long-term commitment, allowing customers to rotate vehicles every six to nine months while avoiding the hidden financial burden of ownership.
The entrepreneurial wisdom Sam shares transcends the automotive industry. His emphasis on grit, problem-solving persistence, and backing yourself when you deeply understand a challenge resonates with founders across sectors. Perhaps most powerful is his perspective on career choices: "It's non-renewable, you ain't getting it back and you kind of got one shot at it." This reminder to be intentional with your professional journey serves as both inspiration and practical guidance for anyone navigating today's rapidly evolving business landscape.
It's been pretty, I would say non-linear from a career path.
Speaker 2:I think we can all say that maybe even five years from now, some of the jobs that will exist we wouldn't have predicted right.
Speaker 1:The first lesson is you know, you really just need to back yourself. More often than not, Anyone that's on an entrepreneurial journey, you're sort of pushing into the darkness alone to some degree.
Speaker 2:You can't get discouraged if this problem is not getting solved in the short term.
Speaker 1:They just see the tail end, where you get that little bit of hockey stick and it's like, oh, it all just fell into your lap. If you have a really good understanding of the problem, you're very focused on it and you know it as well, if not better, than anyone else you know, make sure you back yourself. It's non-renewable. You ain't getting it back and you kind of got one shot at it.
Speaker 2:Welcome everybody to another episode of SaaS Stories. Today I'm joined by Sam Zammett, chief Product Officer and Co-Founder of Carmo. Welcome, sam.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me, John Great to meet you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Now. You've had quite a cool background. You've led teams in the military. You've got into corporate consulting. You've done the startup world. Tell us a little bit about your journey into the world of SaaS. How did you get started? How did you end up where you are today?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been pretty I would say non-linear from a career path. I grew up in Gladstone, central Queensland. It's a bit bigger now than what it was back then, but a sort of industrial town and I think everything at the time. I think about some of the careers now that just weren't either A in existence back then or, at the very least, weren't well communicated. That was one of the reasons I ended up joining the army at the start, but that sort of allowed me to travel more, see more of the world, and when it came time for me to leave, I had a really good opportunity to go and do a full-time MBA at the University of Queensland. I did that full-time back in 2013.
Speaker 1:And you know that sort of really opened my eyes up to. You know what else was out there. I certainly wouldn't have predicted you know being heavily involved in software 20 years ago. But I guess through you know getting involved into a consulting business at the time that had a very strong software focus and then joining Uber on the Queensland operations team, you start to get a lot more exposure. But I guess also you know getting a good exposure into that sort of connection between software and operations and I think if I could say anything about what my career has looked like since then. There's definitely a software and sort of product angle, but it's also very heavily focused around operations as well.
Speaker 2:That's such an interesting journey. I think we can all say that maybe even five years from now, some of the jobs that will exist we wouldn't have predicted, right Like with AI exploding. Tell me a little bit about Carmo. So you've had experience at Uber, you know. You've had experience, you know, in consulting as a leader. This must have been kind of sparked this idea that is Carmo.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean to some degree. So the business was originally founded back in late 2018 by our CEO, nick Boucher. He's got a really strong dealership background, really understands the automotive industry, and he was looking for a way at the time to sort of you know, to some degree support dealers in selling cars. You know, pre-covid, you know it was a pretty tough industry, I think. The gross margins were slowly declining over time. Volume was down, gross margins were slowly declining over time and volume was down, and so he was looking at how to become a not just deliver a consumer product, but do it in a way that really supported dealerships and acted as a good partner to them. So that kicked that off. The nature of the business at the time was heavily focused around ride share rentals, so vehicles to Uber drivers. And then in 2021, and I've known Nick for a very long time, about 20 years now he approached me and sort of said, you know, asked me what I was up to At the time I was doing some sweat equity work.
Speaker 1:Prior to that, I been involved, uh, with another startup, um that that hadn't worked out, and um, and was involved in, uh, uber's e-mobility push um into queensland, which you know, naturally covid kind of put a bit of a stop to uh, and so the timing was right to to join team. It was principally focused at the time on on growing this sort of private car subscription market. Um, we I think from memory we bought about uh eight Teslas at the time are one of the few cars that we could sort of get our hands on relatively easily and they just sort of they went really quickly and um, and then we started to double down on that. You know, at this point in time that sort of ride share part of the business is a pretty small part of the business and that private and business part of the business is really the bulk of our revenue.
Speaker 2:Got it, got it, and so it sounds like you've had a few different experiences across different startups. I'm curious what are maybe some key lessons that you've learned in terms of growing and scaling a startup?
Speaker 1:more often than not, I'd be really reticent to sort of plot out a path or an instruction manual. There's so many challenges, there's so many different problems. Every business, both from a consumer side, right, but also, you know, what do you need to do on the inside of the business to support that model? How many people do you need? What kind of industries do they need to come from? What other problems does that create from a management perspective? I think, even just running a business, running a team, especially over the last few years, work is changing constantly and how people are employed and where they work and how they work. So there's all these little challenges along the way. I mean, ultimately you kind of you know, and I think anyone that's on an entrepreneurial journey you're sort of pushing into the darkness alone to some degree. So you know, you've kind of got to be careful about. You know, take advice absolutely, but at some point you really just need to back yourself and keep putting one foot in front of the other.
Speaker 2:That's so true. Isn't it Like there's so many different parts, there's not one right way of doing it, and do you think it takes like a specific type of personality that can be? You know, someone that can grow a startup? Do you feel like there's certain key personality traits that are required for this?
Speaker 1:I mean it's it's it's hard, it's hard to um. You know I've met so many different people, I think, in my journey. Um, you know, sometimes it's that specific type of personality. But also, you know, when we're talking beforehand about, you know, being parents at different times in people's life, you know that opportunity presents itself as well. You know, I always say to people, especially when they're starting out in their journey, it's like you've got so much less to lose at that point, so you can be a bit bolder. You know, once you're, you know, once you're starting to have a family and things like that, maybe your risk appetite decreases a little bit. But yeah, I mean there's definitely some common traits.
Speaker 1:I think I've seen, I think, people that are curious about problems and I think, people that can stay on target as well, and what I mean by that is that problem you fall in love with at the start. You have to stay in love with for the long term. It's very easy to get caught up in. You know we need finance for this or we need money for this or we need to solve this problem, but you know, staying focused on, you know what's that core problem you're trying to solve and not letting it go, you know, seems to be fairly consistent with the people I feel like that I see doing really well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the word grit comes to mind actually, as you were saying that like, yes, you need to be a problem solver, but also you can't get discouraged if this problem is not getting solved in the short term.
Speaker 1:right, Well, and then you know the tail end of that as well is, you know, the great question, a very good friend of mine we were catching up over the weekend and he's got a business based in Sydney. Now he's had sort of multiple iterations of this and you know it's starting to take off a bit for him at the moment. But I'd said to him you know, no one sees that sort of four years of grinding away and trying to make it work. They just see the tail end where you get that little bit of hockey stick and it's like, oh, it all just fell into your lap and you're right. Like you know, I've think about him. He's had to show a heap of grit to kind of move through that and he's at the tail end now. But he certainly wouldn't be there without it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. What do you think's been one of the most unexpected lessons that you've learnt throughout your journey?
Speaker 1:Oh, where do I start? Yeah, I mean I guess there's like there's quite a few along the way and at different times in the business. I think probably one thing is, you know, when you're starting out this sort of overestimation of experience, and what I mean by that is not that people with experience you know should be ignored or anything like that, but that they're, you know, often, you know everyone else is just trying to make it work as well. Everyone else is facing problems for the first time. I think you know and I go back to that point earlier about backing yourself I think it's easy sometimes to sort of defer or maybe overemphasize someone else's views. You might have that little nugget and I think that lesson I feel like I've learned that lesson a number of times, even when I expect that I've learned it to just, you know, keep focusing on you know, if you have a really good understanding of the problem, you're very focused on it and you know it as well, if not better, than anyone else you know, make sure you back yourself. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I like that. Back yourself. Yeah, no, I like that. Coming back to Carmo, I feel like the transport industry in general has already been disrupted so much in the last few years I mean with self-driving cars. It's about to get even more disrupted in the next few years. Tell us about the space. What excites you about this space? Why did you see you know that this was the problem that you wanted to solve.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean look.
Speaker 1:I think there's sort of two parts to this. I think the first part is, you know, solving or, I guess, balancing the question of what does car ownership mean and what is it worth. You know we look at, there's around 11 million dwellings in Australia. 55% of them have more than two cars in the driveway. Now, at the same time, when you look at the total cost of ownership reports that most of the automotive bodies produce RACV, for example, for example, produce one annually.
Speaker 1:Typically speaking, you know of your cost of owning a car, 40% of your cost goes to depreciation Now and, at the same time, people don't realise that or they don't account for it, which means, you know, for most people, whatever you think your car costs you each year, it's probably 50% higher.
Speaker 1:For most people, whatever you think your car costs you each year, it's probably 50% higher.
Speaker 1:And so I think, like A, there's a sort of you know, exciting opportunity to educate people about you know, what does it really cost you to own a car, at the same time being able to provide an alternative access model that is priced the same, if not better, but also has the flexibility of being able to hand the car back with notice without you know significant penalty or any penalty, and being able to rotate and have a new car every sort of six to nine months, I think is a really sort of fascinating problem.
Speaker 1:On the other side of it, though, you know we've also got and I talked a little bit earlier about being partners to dealerships and manufacturers. I find it really exciting to be able to play a role in the success of other businesses, and we think a lot about how do we make sure our model continues to support them. We sort of see ourselves in some ways as a bit of a regulated two-sided marketplace. You know we've got the customers on one side demand, dealers and manufacturers on the other side supply, and making sure that we can connect those two so that it's a win-win for everybody is a really interesting problem, but really exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I think you know it's a good problem to be solving, especially as the cost of goods just keeps going up and up and you know people might not be able to afford paying outright or even the finance options that are available. Do you think consumer behavior around car ownership is changing, like, do you think people are kind of letting go of the need to own the car?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you sort of raise a good point there around. You know, cost Increasingly. We look at, you know, those 55% of households, principally families, as capital allocators, and so how they allocate that capital becomes very important. If you look at the last you know, I think about just even my own lifetime getting a car as a young man. That was a really big thing. I grew up in Gladstone, a regional area, so it wasn't like public transport was a huge thing at the time and it really represented a significant amount of freedom. If I plot forward to now, I think some of the demographic data is suggesting younger people are getting driver's licenses at lower and lower rates. With remote work we've got people moving to areas where they don't need to drive as much as well. So I think if you kind of pull all these things together you start to see an absolute change. And you know kind of, on that cusp, as you said, right, autonomous vehicles it's hard to imagine the landscape is going to be much like 20 years ago, in sort of five to 10 years.
Speaker 2:Sure, do you think it's been a bit of a mindset shift? I should say, like are people still needing to be educated in this space? Are they very much aware of this option? You know, what kind of marketing have you had to do to kind of make people aware of you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean to get to where we are now. It's principally been performance marketing. You know, we've been very, very sort of cost focused. We're starting to get a little bit more headway now. So we're starting to think more and more about, you know, above the line of brand strategies. I mean, we absolutely think there's a huge, huge runway for us in terms of both brand and category marketing. We want to be, you know, synonymous with car subscription in Australia. There's a long way to get before we can get there and at the same time, I think, you know, a lot of people are really still not educated about car subscription in general, how it works and how it would fit in with their life, but also, like, how does it compare to, you know, say, a long-term lease, short-term rental, outright ownership finance?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Can we do a little bit of a deep dive in some of the marketing that you've done? Like you mentioned, performance marketing, maybe some key campaigns that have worked incredibly well for you.
Speaker 1:Um geez, I think um, we've taken a bit of a I mean historically uh a bit of a scattergun uh approach Um, you know, interestingly with. So we have operations in, uh, sydney, melbourne, brisbane, adelaide, perth. What we found with, um, you know, performance marketing in general is if you've got a really low and depending on how you set the campaigns up, obviously, but you know, if you've got a really uh low on how you set the campaigns up, obviously. But if you've got a really low cost per click, for example and that's what you're optimizing for out of a capital city, it's very easy for that spend to get sucked into that capital city, and then you have smaller cities not getting any money. So we've really taken this multiple campaigns at the city and product level to make sure that we're kind of allocating funds fairly. Um, what that's meant um in terms of, like you know, search terms and and how we think about content, has been like we've sort of, you know, thrown everything at it. I guess that's the good thing about um performance marketing. So, you know, one thing been interesting, though is you know certain things at different times of the year work and then they don't, changing key terms and search terms. I wouldn't say there's been an absolute, absolute standout, other than to say all of our referral acquisition has been typically outstanding.
Speaker 1:We look at our customer base in sort of two main areas long-term and short-term. And what I mean by that is, you know, we have people come to us for a defined period, so they might be waiting for it. They might have purchased a new car. They're waiting for a new car to arrive. It's five months away. They need an interim step, um. So we have, you know, we'll have those people come through.
Speaker 1:And then, at the same time, we have people that have been with us for a number of years now, um, and we look at them very differently from a churn and acquisition perspective, but across both, what we really look at is and and you know from top of our campaigns, referrals, organic all the way through to.
Speaker 1:You know what their sort of lifetime revenues look like. We look at them as how do we build a long-term relationship? It's a bit like housing, right? Like you know, people don't leave home and then just buy a house and then that's it for the rest of their life. They might rent, they might buy, they might move city, they might go back to renting, et cetera, et cetera, and so we want to make sure that, throughout all of our marketing campaigns, and then how we onboard customers, how we retain customers, that we're looking at this from like a really holistic vehicle access perspective, not just this sort of small finite problem that we need to solve today yeah, right, and also it sounds like there needs to be kind of a lot of local relevance in some of the messages.
Speaker 2:Like you mentioned all the big cities in australia, do you find that you have to deliver different types of messages across those cities? Is the audience quite different?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, it's not I wouldn't say it's like fundamentally different. But you know, we definitely see. Um, you know and this is this is probably an insight about 12 months old at least now but, um, you know, our BMW campaigns worked really really well in Melbourne, more so than they did in other cities. Um, you know, there's there's all these sort of localized, very small things, and I think that's where, like, campaign optimization is really important and staying on top of that.
Speaker 1:Yes, throw a couple of like, try to swing for the fences campaigns and, kind of, you know, find those insights. But most performance marketing we've found is really a case of like incremental gains and optimizations and trying to retain a high degree of spend efficiency. But I mean to talk to your localization. We've also, you know, we've got operations staff in all of these cities and you know to some degree, like you know, they're the face of our brand. When you look at our Google campaigns, I think our staff are mentioned as much, if not more, than Carmo. So you know there's a really strong role, not just for your digital localized presence, but, you know, for certain products and I think we're one of those to have a local presence where we're building a human relationship, not just a brand relationship with our customers is really critical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I think it's definitely a people business will do well. But also, yeah, I was going to ask if you do have operations on the grounds, because you know, obviously having that local knowledge would really help. With that in mind, do you have global aspirations, Like if you were to go somewhere like the US or, you know, in Europe? Would that be kind of like the first step, finding the person on the ground that can help you run with it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's interesting right. So we do talk a lot about global aspirations and we certainly have them. I mean, in the short to medium term we're really focused on Australia and getting our operations and kind of marketing right. But you know, for me as chief product officer, our platform ready for scale. There's a whole bunch of like localization challenges, whether it's currency, tax laws, invoicing requirements for different markets. So we want to get the scalability question right in Australia first.
Speaker 1:But certainly when we look internationally, I think you know Europe and the US are kind of the standouts for us at the moment. But you know, in some ways they're very different and in other ways they're very similar. Whenever we do a review of the, you know, for example, the US state-based tax codes. You know you could almost look at that, as you know 51 individual countries. Europe, on the other hand, you know very much the same, maybe a little bit more homogenized on the regulatory side, but you know different languages and kind of other cultural norms that go with that. I think operationally we want to sort of be able to be set up that we could deploy wherever. But we also, you know, have a strong view that localized marketing and messaging is going to be really critical to getting penetration into market.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. I've definitely heard that one before as well. The US is like. You have to look at it as 50 different countries, not states. It's incredible how different they are. Um, coming back to some life hacks, um, you obviously have a background in military. I'm curious are there any habits or routines that you've learned in the military that are now helping you in this journey on entrepreneurship?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I've. I mean look, first and foremost, uh, just having a fitness regime of some description has been um, and certainly as I've gotten older as well, I think there's a lot to be said for how routine, and especially something physical, can kind of make you a bit happier, de-stress a little bit, like all those sorts of things.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:So I think that's probably been a big part. I probably don't do it as much as I should, but I know it's there so I need to do it. But I think, like, in addition to that, like I guess, at work, you know, trying to be consistent around you know what we're doing, roles and responsibilities and all just the fundamentals around running a team and being in a team. You know, especially in startups, right, it's like goalposts are shifting constantly. That can be a very challenging environment to work in for staff, you know, especially when they're trying to, like you know, put the blinkers on work on something deep for a period of time if there's, you know, constant context switching or new initiatives. So trying to just control that and being very focused on you know this is the mission, these are the people, these are their responsibilities and trying to maintain some consistency around that as much as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny, chief Product Officer, but I've heard you say the word people and teams so much, because obviously you feel like you know that it's the people that drive the business as much as the product. So, um, I'm curious, like, in terms of leadership skills, um, what do you find works really well with managing some of these teams and people? What are maybe some of the core values that guide that?
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, it's funny, funny, you say that sort of. I've said with some of my own team in the past. You know, I feel like my role. I'm the product manager of the team. That's the product I'm trying to build as the team and then they're working, obviously, on the platform. Yeah, I guess I'll just go back to consistency.
Speaker 1:I think you know I had a very early on in my career. I had a pretty seasoned infantry sergeant say to me that, you know, most people all they really want to know is where are we going, how long is it going to take us to get there, and what does success look like at the other end? Um, and it's pretty simple, right? Uh, I mean, it's challenging to to stay on that, you know, in a, in a rapidly changing environment and for people to really feel that in their bones. But I think, as much as possible it's just it's, you know, creating that clarity for the team.
Speaker 1:Um, that then sets the, the base mark, or, I guess, the, the foundations around the rest of your leadership style, um, and and then I, you know, I sort of typically would just go back to the situational, um, kind of leadership, uh, leadership ideas and, you know, having enough um EQ to figure out what each person needs. Um, again, that's challenging. It's pretty busy. You've got to spend some time thinking about it. It's easy to get it wrong. Um, but you know, just focusing on, you know, does this person need a little bit of space? You know, just focusing on, you know, does this person need a little bit of space? Does this person need a little bit more direction? And being flexible enough as a leader to acknowledge that and be able to deliver that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, what are we doing? Where are we going? What does success look like? It kind of gives them stability as well as purpose, which I think are two things that people really crave.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think if you can do that, it starts to build those values out in the rest of the team. I like to think the team that we have and the team that we're building is very sort of mission and outcome orientated, which means a lot of the other stuff right. Individual point scoring, ego kind of drops away a little bit and you start to really narrow in on. You know what's the purpose, what's the kind of truth of the problem we're trying to solve and that attracts a certain kind of person that you know. You start to get some of these values come out just by chance.
Speaker 2:Values come out just by chance and list yeah, If you could go back in time to the early days of Carmo and maybe change some of the roles that you hired for. Is there any roles that you would have recruited earlier as opposed to later? Oh, all of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I'd say I have thought about this quite a bit. Um, you know, hiring and getting that right is is either really valuable to the business or can be really costly, um. At the same time, I think about the last few years. You know we we've really tried to build this business in in brisbane, principally um and headquarter in Brisbane. We started hiring.
Speaker 1:I think the start of our journey for hiring back in sort of late 21 in particularly this space. You know you had big tech companies really hiring a lot at the time and that made it really challenging when you didn't really have any brand recognition Um, and that made it really challenging when you didn't really have a any brand recognition Um. Now we were able to find some really great people um early on and you know, as we've sort of um, as the business has changed and as the team have changed, we've been able to um add to that Um. But you know we uh we were very cost sensitive as a business. We're very careful about when we hire and who we hire and you know, to some degree I don't know that we would have necessarily done a lot differently.
Speaker 1:There's certainly some ways in which we would have done it maybe and certainly if I think about some of the people that we've hired and how we could better support them over that period. But I think the fundamentals is really, you know, growing a business and trying to make sure that you know you're staying in the block, um, that you know it's really hard. I think anyone going at the start of their startup journey will will kind of be very heavily into a cashflow and very into the books, and you know it's one of the most expensive things that you'll do is hire people, but it's also where you get most of your value. So you know you've got to be really careful about how you do that and very you know very much invest in those people as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, definitely. Do you think it's becoming easier for startups to attract really good talent? I just feel that you know the appetite for working in a startup. You naturally have to be a bit of a risk taker, you have to have it. You know kind of a completely different personality, I suppose, than if you're someone that wants to work for the big corporates. Entrepreneurs are now coming out on podcasts and saying things like you know, if you want to get started and if you want to learn as much as possible, go work at a startup, don't go work at a big company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's funny. That's certainly my circle, that's been something we've all shared over the last sort of 10 years is like some of the best advice and I've given that advice to a number of people, you know. But it depends on your personality type as well. Right, if you know some big companies you know have really well thought out and sort of DTAB training plans and you know there's a whole bunch of like formal learning, if that's attractive to you, that's a great place to work. But certainly, like I think, if you want kind of that rapid exposure to a really broad part like broad parts of the business, you know startups, you get so much exposure so quickly, so much responsibility and it's really like very merit-based. You know, if you can demonstrate to the rest of the business that you can get stuff done well, you're going to get more of it and more opportunity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I do find that with startups you know some people do really well, because I think a lot of people are underestimated and they do actually prefer to be thrown in the deep end and told you know, you've got to learn all of this stuff, go for it, you're on your own. Not so much you're on your own, but you know we'll help you, but you have to learn all of these things, whereas in a big company, like you said, that training plan that could be like two years long, which is something you might learn in six months at a startup.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, some of my favorite hires over the last sort of 20 years have been like kind of to some degree didn't entirely make sense at the time, but you sort of recognized a bit of a spark and maybe some hunger in that person and it's you just need to give them an opportunity to let them show you what they can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are good qualities to hire for, I think. Sam, my last question for you bit of a tradition on the podcast. If you could go back in time and give yourself one bit of advice, this could be either at the start of your career or it could be way back before that. What would that advice be?
Speaker 1:Yeah, before I say it, I might just give the sort of anecdote I had a, um, I had a really, uh, a good friend, uh, about 10 years or so he was, um, he was going through a bit of a career change and, um, he's a little bit older than I was and I, you know, I was sort of querying him about it and what he was going to do. And um, I said, you know, I said to him, like what, what's you know, what's sort of driving this? And he said, and he, he knew to the day I think just about. But he said I've got about 4,750 days left of my working career. Uh, every year from here on in is about 5% of that. Um, I don't want to spend that here, about 5% of that, I don't want to spend that here.
Speaker 1:And so I think, like, if I go back to you know, early on, it's like you're young, you think you've got forever to do everything. I would just say to myself, like, be very critical about how you spend that time and make sure that when you're spending it, you're spending it on people and things that are going to help you be the best version of yourself. It's non-renewable, you ain't getting it back and you kind of got one shot at it. So you know, in some ways I don't want that to sound daunting, but it also it's like I think it helps, you know, give you some laser focus around prioritization and kind of being intellectually honest with yourself about what you want to do and where you want to go.
Speaker 2:I love that advice. I think it's really good for all of us out there that are kind of sitting on the fence of a decision we're not sure we should make you know, based on just the comfort levels that we have versus, is this something I really want to do? So I love that. That's brilliant, sam. Thank you so much for being on the show. I think Carmo is an amazing bit of business. That's really going to change the way people think about car ownership. So yeah, well done, I think that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:Awesome Thanks, joanna, it's great chatting.
